R. Garcia's Website
  • Home
  • Documents
    • Fiction
    • Poetry and Poetry-Related
    • Humor
    • Essays
    • Photographs
  • Blog: The Eclectic Life
  • Quotes
  • Books
    • The Sun Zebra
  • : ^ )
    • Fun Quotes
    • Rolando's Official Web Mascot
    • Cool Videos
    • The Power of Words
    • Odd and Fantastic Pictures
  • Contact

My response to the post about the self-published writers who suck.

12/11/2011

21 Comments

 
Michele's post may be restricted to the particular case of an Indie store event coordinator/marketer, but she makes some broad generalizations that I wish to address.

Self-published books are a market. In every market you find good items and bad ones, you just have to sort through them. How do you decide which one is good? In the old days an editor would decide that. This seems to be the frame of mind that Michele has. I think this is why she is so judgmental when she says most self-published books suck. In the new model the editor is no longer the gatekeeper, it is the reader who makes this decision. This leads to the question of how to distinguish between a book that does not sell because it is considered "bad" by readers, and a book that does not sell because it is not visible to enough readers.

I have just self-published a book of short stories, The Sun Zebra, and it is not selling as well as I would like. The writers that I admire and respect who have read the stories tell me they liked them, and they have read the book to other people that don't even know me, and those people like the stories, too. I have made a great effort to correct aspects of the plot and grammar in the stories. Like many other writers, I know my book may not be perfect, but it doesn't "suck". The problem I (and many other writers) have is marketing. If only we could make our books more visible, I am willing to bet that more people would be willing to buy and read them. And if they do, they would find they like them.

I am sorry that Michelle had such a bad experience but she can hardly fault self-published writers from trying their best to promote their books. After all, it's a jungle out there. Pushy? Rude? Self-absorbed? Maybe, but don't we have a saying that "The squeaky wheel gets the grease?" If you don't love your book, if you are not willing to push it and cross all those hurdles, who will? I believe in good manners, and respect towards others, but sometimes "nice" becomes synonymous with "ignorable", and that is bad for marketing.

To Michelle and her bookstore I have two pieces of advice.

The first advice is: Set filters. State, for example, that you will not even consider taking a look at a book unless it has gathered so many 5 star reviews from other authors, or sold so many copies, or unless the author has a mailing list of so many people, or a blog with so many hits, or a presence in social media with so many followers, etc. This will reduce the flood of self-published authors knocking at your doors and will only let through those willing to work hard to market their books and find an audience.

The second advice: Stop thinking in terms of whether the story is good enough for editors to read and start thinking in terms of whether it will be the sort of story that normal people would like to read. Normal people don't have a tenth of the grammar and writing skills of editors. What is important for an editor may not be important for a normal person. The grammar, the formatting, the cover, and even the plotline and characters can be changed to make them better, but what is paramount is the story itself and how it speaks to readers. That is the soul of the book, without it the book is nothing and no editor can improve upon it regardless of whether the book is self-published or not.

I want to thank everyone who left a comment on this controversial thread.

Phanto

21 Comments
Fred
12/11/2011 06:54:01 am

While I agree with your assessment that story is paramount, I think those of us who publish our own books should make every effort to ensure they're as top-notch as possible with regards to typos, grammar, and formatting as possible. Far too many self-pubbers don't seem to take the time (or have the ability, in many cases) to do that.

If you're going to put your name on something, take some pride in it and do it as right as you can. :)

Reply
Sir Samuel Zeus Clemons link
12/11/2011 08:39:37 am

i remember, we wuz so poor, my uncle freddie used to hav to burn the door in winter to keep warm,

and i was so un ejicated dat i couldn't even spell F S U ...

now i are one

i tweet @Samuel_Clemons

Reply
phantomimic link
12/11/2011 08:54:33 am

Fred - Yes, I agree, we should give it out best.

Sir Samuel - LOL, but really, that's an extreme case.

Reply
Fred
12/11/2011 09:42:10 am

And now I see I used "as possible" twice in one sentence. EDITING, MAN. EDITING.

Reply
Justin Dennis link
12/11/2011 10:48:12 am

the "as possible" thing made me laugh so hard, hahaha. Great blog post too; there is always going to be good and bad but that doesn't automatically make all self-published authors bad! That's prejudice against self-published authors :P

Reply
Garison Fitch link
12/11/2011 10:48:17 am

And let's not forget that we have an on-line culture that seems to revel in complaining.

In the "old days" a Michele might have read a book--whether a dime novel or Lord Jim--and either liked it or hated it. Who could she tell, though? Just friends. Now, if I don't like something, I can speak to millions--and tell myself I speak for millions as well.

I like your advice to Michele on how she can "filter" out the bad ones, but no system will be perfect because even if she only picks 5-star books, that doesn't guarantee she--personally--will like it.

Anyway, despite my rambling comment, I appreciate your blog.

Reply
Tim Miller link
12/11/2011 11:16:57 am

When I first published my own books about 10 years ago, I had my own opinion of Indie book stores. I am a very patient and polite person. My ex wife always said I was too humble for my own good, and not pushy enough when promoting my books.

That said, there were more times than I could count when I would call or go visit an indie store and was treated with rudeness and disdain for taking up thirty seconds of their precious time. Even when I offered to place books there on consignment and have an event and split it on their terms, they still said no without even looking at my book.

One store went so far as to ask me to leave a copy of my book which I did. I called back a week later and asked if she had a chance to look at it. She said no, she sold it, and didn't see the point in me having an event there since it would be a waste of everyone's time.

After that I would tear the cover off any copy I left to a store for review.

So, what I think we are seeing here is a combination a couple of things. One is the same thing legacy publishers are running into. Indie bookstores, big stores, legacy publishers, etc. all used to be the gatekeepers of what the public was allowed to read. Without going through them, then your book is not worthy of public view and would never see the light of day.

Now with kindle, amazon, smashwords and everything else, the authors are more in the driver seat than ever before and its scaring people. Legacy publishers are trying to deal with it. Borders is out of business and B & N is still trying to adjust. I can only imagine how many Indie stores have gone by the wayside last few years and if any of them are as stuck up and pretentious as the ones I'd dealt with, then I am happy to see them go.

Not to mention, she cites James Patterson and some others in her post. James Patterson's book are nothing but pointless drivel slapped together by his outline and a ghost writer. If THAT is the quality standard they expect us to live up to, then I am happy to skip over that step.

Reply
PKHarrington
12/11/2011 11:20:51 am

Good reply. Let's not forget, professionally edited books put out by traditional publishing houses have typos, tense inconsistencies and grammar mistakes. The 96' Webster dictionary had 315 mis spelled words. As far as plot is concerned? There are main stream books that have been made into movies that just make me say WTF? I know all of you can name a few. If you do buy an indie you don't like, write a review, you've likely only lost the cost of a cup of coffee. And, if we mention our book it's pushy? But when a commercial for a celebrity movie, book, Tv show or CD comes on the TV-radio-in the theater-in the magazines etc it's not pushy? I have seen and read some of the most ridiculous books, often published purely on the fact the 'author' is a celebrity, how pitiful.

Reply
phantomimic link
12/11/2011 11:46:00 am

Fred - LOL, I also do as possible too!

Justin - True, some people generalize from the few to the many so easily.

Garison - Thanks, and that is the question. What is the standard? Who decides what's good? We Self-pubers say: "The Readers!"

Tim - Thanks for describing your experience. Like you say they must be feeling the pressure too. Their whole system is being turned upside down and they don't know how to respond.

PK - Thanks, yes and those errors in printed books are there to stay. With e-books you can just issue a second edition (like I will do soon with my book) in no time at all.

Reply
Louise link
12/11/2011 12:38:52 pm

Many books I've read, vetted by traditional gatekeeping publishers, were incomphrensible, formulaic, puzzling, or excruciatingly boring. Because they were chosen for me by someone else, who's taste in books I did not share.
And good writing, IMO, was often mistaken for a good story. No matter how much a dog is polished, it still woofs.
And the choice was limited. Go into 10 bookstores, and you'd see all the same books being offered. Popular writers were published until they ran out of good ideas, and then any old schlock they wrote got published on the strength of their reputations. Because their names sold books.
I came to the conclusion that many writers have a limited number of good books in them. It took a lot of reading for me to find authors and/or books I liked.
Now with writers self publishing, the numbers of books are staggering and the standards are different. PhD's in English Lit, and experienced business peple who know what the public will buy, are no longer choosing what people can read. But when you consider the caliber of writing of some hugely popular books that were traditionally published, it shows that even traditional publishers sometimes published good stories that were written abysmally.
Writers, readers and old publishers will have to adjust to the new choices in publishing, and a new system of excellence will evolve.
In the meantime, it behooves a selfpublisher to make sure their book is the absolute best they can produce, and then some.
It still isn't easy.

Reply
pooks link
12/11/2011 09:22:31 pm

<i>Normal people don't have a tenth of the grammar and writing skills of editors. What is important for an editor may not be important for a normal person. </i>

I agree that story, characters, entertainment are key, but there is a standard that readers expect. Perhaps you are writing to an audience that doesn't know or care about grammar, and if so, good luck within your niche.

Reply
s.e.rittel link
12/12/2011 02:07:21 am

I totally agree with what you're saying. I've been struggling for a year (so far) to be published, and recently began seriously considering self-publishing instead. Also... how many hugely successful books have sucked *cough* twilight series *cough* the equation appears to be marketing + dumb luck = success. What goes into the book need not be perfect, or meet EVERY person's standard of good. Best of luck to you!

Reply
phantomimic link
12/12/2011 07:27:05 am

Louise - Your comment about some writers just having a few books in them is something I wrote about before:

http://phantomimic.weebly.com/2/post/2011/07/how-much-artistic-capital-do-you-have.html

And also, yes, we self-pubers have to do everything, but hey, at least we are publishing as opposed to going through the rejection grind.

pooks - Grammar is important, I agree, but what I am saying is that the grammar requirements of a regular person (which are the majority, not a niche) are below those of an editor. Something that an editor may consider unaceptable, a regular person may not even notice.

S.E.- Thanks, I agree, it's a mix of marketing and luck.

Reply
Daventhal link
4/14/2012 08:38:30 am

I'm not going to lie. Michelle's post put me into a deep state of depression. I wrote a book (like everyone else in the world, apparently), and self-published it electronically. So, while Michelle's comments about authors who self-publish physical copies and are subsequently pushy with booksellers don't necessarily hit home for me, her comments about how terrible my book must be certainly do.

Thanks for your response. It took a little of the edge off. Nevertheless, I'm still feeling quite a bit of self-loathing.

I've encountered such a hatred for self-published authors online recently that I can't even think straight. I just came from a forum where everyone was bitterly criticizing the tendency of an author's friends and family to give their book a favourable review, calling it dishonest and abusive. It's getting to the point that I don't even want to tell my friends I published a book because I don't want to be criticized for duping readers with "fake" reviews.

I'm aware that there are a lot of self-published authors who write crappy novels and insist they're masterpieces. Perhaps they do need to be criticized. For shy perfectionists who live in fear of anyone ever reading something they've written because it might turn out to be terrible, such harsh criticism can be completely devastating.

I'm never going to stop writing, but I'm starting to think it should just be a private affair. It's hard enough when someone criticizes something I've written. Do I really need to hear boatloads of people criticizing me for even considering that I might publish it?

Reply
Rolando link
4/15/2012 12:22:17 am

When your work goes out to thousands of people there are always some that will say it stinks (even if it doesn't). That is the nature of the human species. These things bother me too but we have to develop a thick skin. A positive review says the reviewer liked the book. It's irrelevant whether the reviewer is your mother, a friend, or a stranger. It is not dishonest or abusive; it's the truth. In self-publishing the reader is the one who decides whether the book is good or not for whatever reason. That is the new order that many still refuse to understand.

Reply
Inge Meldgaard link
4/28/2012 07:05:55 pm

Interesting topic, on which I've read many posts on various sites. The fact of the matter is, we're here to stay :D Whereas a traditionally published author may go out of print if their publisher deems they haven't sold enough copies (of course, second hand copies will continue to be sold), self published books remain alive as long as the companies used to publish them remain. We can also issue as many revisions of both printed and electronic versions as we have the energy for - which is wonderful in terms of being able to correct blunders when our improved skills make us realise we've committed some - and even Tolkien did that - revised 'The Hobbit' (after publication) many times, apparently. I think the most compelling reason to self-publish though, is that *you* are in charge of the quality of the book, not someone who may or may not have the interest/skill to bring it up to standard. I speak from experience. Yes, the big publishers and many small ones are no doubt wonderful, but with the advent of self-published authors, come reams of self-styled niche publishers and agents, who often know less about writing than the author. I obtained a contract for my first novel, The Cicada, but ended up cancelling when I discovered how unprofessional the company was. A self-published author then helped me publish it, under their company name, which looks impressive, but isn't really. I decided the more honest thing to do was to put my own name as publisher for the sequel, A Death In The Making, and have enjoyed the whole process a great deal more.

Reply
Rolando link
4/29/2012 05:22:20 am

Thanks for your comment Inge. I have read a lot of horror stories out there from writers who were received sub-par services from their publishers. It is like if the publishers wanted their book to fail; weird.

Reply
Robert David MacNeil link
4/29/2012 09:41:36 pm

Great post! I am personally very thankful for indie authors who work so hard to market their books. Most of the indie books I've read have been very enjoyable. If it were not for indie authors "pushing" their books I would have missed out on many great reading experiences. (Including "Sun Zebra!)

Reply
Rolando link
4/30/2012 07:19:10 am

Thank you for your comment Robert, and yes, if we don't push them who will? Books don't sell themselves, and we don't have the marketing muscle of a corporation behind us. I'd rather push and rub someone the wrong way than get ignored.

Reply
wilde_at_heart link
7/13/2012 05:47:59 am

My mum was an editor a long time ago (in the 60s) for a publishing house. It's not true that writers who got published always had submitted perfectly polished, flawless works.
She edited one where the writing was absolutely dreadful but the story and characters were all solid. It was her job to work with the author to make it into something readable.
I strive for excellence these days, but not perfection.

However, I found in the 90s a lot of 'literary' books came out that were beautifully written, but excruciatingly dull, almost narcissistic. Memoirs were all the rage and most people's lives are rarely all that interesting.

Nowadays, with everything, 'who' you know is paramount. It trumps what you know in nearly every field, not just writing. If you don't know the right person (who everyone else is also trying to know) then it is sometimes easiest to just bypass them if you can.

With social media many of us are learning our way around those gatekeepers and reaching audiences directly. You do need to be marketing-savvy and pushy; it's just how things are. Sure there's a lot of dreck out there, including books or movies that have been hugely popular. There never has been any accounting for taste.

As for the ego... without that ego, without that sense that you really have written the next masterpiece, how are you going to be able to withstand the pressure that comes with putting yourself out there?
Of course there are people who hugely over-estimate their abilities, and some of those succeed in something anyway.

If you don't try you won't ever know.

Reply
Rolando link
7/13/2012 08:06:07 am

Thank you for your comment. Some people seem to concentrate on the way stories are written and if it is not near perfect it turns them off. I am an advocate of the story. I believe a good story can trump writing that is not perfect. Also, what you say is true: if you don’t try you’ll never know. This is a piece of ancient wisdom. My grandmother use to say that to me when I was a kind!

Reply

Your comment will be posted after it is approved.


Leave a Reply.

    Picture

    I am a tinker, tailor,
    soldier, sailor,
    rich man, poor man,
    beggar-man, thief!

    Follow Phantomimic on Twitter

    RSS Feed

    Blogroll

    Laura Novak
    Barbara Alfaro
    Suzanne Rosenwasser
    Sunny Lockwood
    Christine Macdonald
    Jennie Rosenbaum
    Kristen Lamb
    Joe Konrath
    Sweepy Jean
    Ingrid Ricks
    The Jotter
    Robert David MacNeil
    Molly Greene
    The Passive Voice
    Third Sunday Blog Carnival
    Marilou George
    Laura Zera
    Jeri Walker-Bickett
    Lia London

    Categories

    All
    Advice For Writers
    Amazon
    Art
    Author
    Ballet
    Bloggers
    Bluegrass Music
    Book Promotion
    Book Review
    Cats
    Censorship
    Clopper Mill
    Coffe
    Cool Places
    Coral Castle
    E Books
    E-Books
    Enchanted Highway
    Fair
    Fiction
    Glenstone
    Goodreads
    Grammar
    Guest Post
    Harry Potter
    Indie
    Interview
    Issues
    Kdp Select
    Kindle
    Milestone
    Milestones
    Muses
    Nell
    Novel
    Nuclear Missile Sites
    Painting
    Picture
    Poe Toaster
    Poetry
    Politics
    Prague Quadrennial
    Print Books
    Quality
    Reading
    Restaurant At Patowack Farm
    Science
    Scribd
    Self Publishing
    Self-Publishing
    Short Story
    Song
    Spirit Women
    Spotlight
    Sun Zebra
    Supernatural
    Theater
    The Sedlec Ossuary
    Video
    Women
    Words
    Writer
    Writers
    Writer's Block
    Writing

    Archives

    April 2020
    November 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    January 2015
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    October 2013
    June 2013
    May 2013
    February 2013
    January 2013
    December 2012
    November 2012
    October 2012
    September 2012
    August 2012
    July 2012
    June 2012
    May 2012
    April 2012
    March 2012
    February 2012
    January 2012
    December 2011
    November 2011
    October 2011
    September 2011
    August 2011
    July 2011
    June 2011
    May 2011
    April 2011

    Picture
    Picture
    Picture

    RSS Feed

Powered by Create your own unique website with customizable templates.